Sewer Scope Challenges: What Home Inspectors Can and Cannot Do

Sewer scope inspections can be thwarted by inaccessible clean-outs, requiring plumbers rather than home inspectors to create proper access points. We explore why clean-outs are essential, what prevents inspectors from completing scopes, and who's responsible for ensuring access before home purchases.

• Every home should have at least one clean-out, with additional access points every 100 feet for longer sewer lines
• Clean-outs can become inaccessible when caps fuse to pipes over time, are hidden behind walls, or were never installed
• Home inspectors in Ohio cannot legally pull toilets, cut pipes, or create new access points as these require plumbing licenses
• Sellers should hire plumbers to create proper access before closing if scopes cannot be completed
• Flippers claiming "the sewer works fine" based on minimal worker usage doesn't reflect a family's daily water demands
• State licensing prohibits inspectors from soliciting repair work on properties they've inspected

Remember to always get a sewer scope before purchasing a home to avoid expensive surprises after closing.

Transcript

Introduction to Standing Out in Ohio Podcast

Speaker 1 0:02

Welcome to the Standing Out in Ohio podcast, where we discuss topics, upcoming events, news and predictions with real estate professionals and entrepreneurs. Listen and learn what makes their companies and themselves stand out and gain advantages over the competition and gain market share. Subscribe for the latest news and discussion on what it takes to stand out from the crowd. Now here's your host, jim.

Speaker 2 0:31

Hey everybody, welcome to the Standing Out and how podcast. This is Jim and of course I have with me Laura, the office goddess.

Speaker 3 0:38

Hello everyone, Hello buddy, how you doing, Hi buddy.

Speaker 2 0:42

Peachy Keaton, how about you? Doing great, doing great, great. So weather's going back and forth lately, so I know you, you are tired of cold weather I am insanely sick of cold weather I don't mind it, but it'd be nice to have some nice weather.

The Clean-Out Cap Explained

Speaker 2 1:00

I am working on chicken coop, so if anybody sees me out and about building chicken coop so our chickens have more room for themselves, maybe easier to get eggs, because right now they want to lay their eggs hidden down below and it's hard to get. So we're going to fix that with the new coop. But I want to talk about this is not unusual. It happens to every, as far as I know, pretty much every single home inspection company that does sewer scopes. This happens where you get there and you there's no clean out that you can get to that. That could be in order to do the scope. There's a couple reasons why that can happen, but first let's talk about this or let's listen to this. Let's listen.

Speaker 4 1:50

Habitation investigation is the way to go For a home inspection in Ohio. Trusted licensed home inspectors for your needs, from radon to mold to warranties For a great home inspection Okay, such a good jingle, anyway. I love that.

Speaker 2 2:20

The guy who did that did a nice job he did a very good job. I don't know if he's the same guy, was he?

Speaker 3 2:26

the one from Australia.

Speaker 2 2:28

No no, no, I got him from New Zealand oh, he was from New Zealand. I can't tell the difference between New Zealand and Australian accents.

Speaker 3 2:37

I can tell the difference between Australian and England, but not between New Zealand and Australian. I've not heard enough of the New Zealand, yeah me neither.

Speaker 2 2:45

So, anyway, but not between New Zealand and Australia. And I've not heard enough of the New Zealand? Yeah, me neither. So anyway, anywho.

Speaker 2 2:50

We had a sewer scope the other day. Yes, we get there and here's how typically how it's supposed to go. You go there. Maybe you do it towards the end of the inspection. The beginning it really doesn't matter. I like doing it towards the end because I ran water. So hopefully I have nice clean lines to go through If the house was vacant for a while and maybe they had been used. If there's a clog somewhere down the line or if there's a low spot, I want to be able to see that, and you can only see that really if there's water has been used. So I do toward the end. So at some point during the inspection you typically go to the basement, you open up the clean-out cap.

Speaker 3 3:35

So explain what a clean-out cap is for people who have never done a sewer scope or owned a house.

Speaker 2 3:42

If you live in Ohio and you have a basement anywhere. If you have a basement, typically you'll have that three or four inch pipe that's going vertically from your underneath the bathroom, typically going straight down into the floor. It can be cast iron, plastic, pvc if it's a newer type home or it can be cast iron it could be even copper and then it goes in the cast iron pipe. So your clean-out it's just a cap, a screw cap that you would just use a tool, maybe a monkey wrench, to unscrew it, usually about three-inch, three or four-inch, so you can stick a camera into that pipe and then go down into the sewer line and then from there you can push that camera all the way up to the street.

Speaker 2 4:31

Or maybe to a septic system, if you have that.

Speaker 3 4:34

So a clean-out is basically access to get into the pipe to do work.

When Clean-Outs Are Inaccessible

Speaker 2 4:37

Yes, and every house should have a clean-out.

Speaker 3 4:42

Isn't there also something about?

Speaker 2 4:43

every hundred feet there should be a clean out yep, okay, if say you're in a house and you're way back away from the street, off the street, and it's oh, it's a long distance between your house and the main sewer line for the city, you should have an opening, another clean out, 100 feet into it every 100 feet here we would need like nine clean outs 10 we would need a couple cleaners.

Speaker 2 5:11

Yes, to go all the way. If our, if we were in a city, right, we would need several cleaners all the way down there. So I thought okay gotcha. Instead we have one and we're only, and the septic tank is only I don't know 20, 15 yards maybe from the house and there's a clean out, there's a clean out, right outside, there's sometimes a clean outside outside the house it's totally fine, but anyway you need the clean out because you may someday need to get inside there to unclog the check on things.

Speaker 3 5:48

You can be relining through that, so you don't have to dig up your pipes.

Speaker 2 5:52

Yep to reline it. Do some work. You need access to it, right? Sometimes we get to a house and I'm thinking of a house that's on an, an older house cast iron pipes and they put that brass cap on it and if the cap has never been removed, you're not going to get it off unless you break it. And a lot of inspectors are like all right, no, I can't force that thing open.

Speaker 3 6:26

Well, there's a couple reasons for that, actually. So the first is actually our state licensing that says that we cannot damage a house.

Speaker 2 6:33

Well, we're not supposed to try.

Speaker 3 6:34

Right, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 6:36

And we're not plumbers, and that was the second one.

Speaker 3 6:39

So that's another part of the state licensing part. The state licenses plumbers and house plumbers. You have a specific set of skills and things that you can do. Home inspectors have their own skills and things that they can do and they don't mix.

Speaker 2 6:56

No, well, correct, now we can. If we can get that cap off and say the cap was junk and it falls apart, we can put a new cap on that. Right, there's no problem with that. This is something that every homeowner can and should have that ability to do. It's just a pretty simple things to do that. But I've had where I started. I turned a cap and I can see a crack in that cast iron pipe, like I can just see it. Now I'm like, oh, it's been cracked and no, I'm not going to force it because it will make it worse, so I'm not going to force it. So that's one case where we can't get to it. If it's cast iron and I'm using it as a brass, it's a brass cap that just over the decades, that metal just seems to weld itself onto the cast iron.

Speaker 3 7:45

Is that like a chemical process or something it is?

Missing or Hidden Clean-Outs

Speaker 2 7:47

That's kind of crazy Molecules always move. If you took silver and gold bars and put them right together and left them there, they will eventually start migrating the molecules across each other.

Speaker 3 7:57

So they would like blend, they would fuse together. How long does that take? Because that's cool as heck.

Speaker 2 8:03

I don't know they would fuse together. How long does that take? Because that's cool as heck. I don't know. I've never had silver and gold attested.

Speaker 3 8:06

It would take a long time, I'm sure. Okay, so keep my jewelry together If I don't take my jewelry out or my gold and silver rings go mixed together.

Speaker 2 8:14

You would not need to worry about that. I'm talking long time and you probably have little vibrations in the jewelry box. So no, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 3 8:25

So what other reasons couldn't we get into a pipe?

Speaker 2 8:28

Well, we can't get the cap off Right For whatever reason or it might damage the pipe or the cap. All right, kind of hands off.

Speaker 3 8:36

And that's a plumber's job, then because they're going to be the ones that are going to have to fix that and take that off and repair it.

Speaker 2 8:42

We would prefer a plumber come in and cut the pipe off, because they're cutting the pipe. They may even change out that pipe if it's damaged. They got to replace that pipe. Some of the home repairs are not supposed to. We're not there to do repairs.

Speaker 4 8:54

We're not plumbers, yeah.

Speaker 2 8:56

So if it can't come off, get a plumber to do it. Some people will pull a toilet up. Okay, when you do that, first of all it makes a mess, you get water all over the floor, but you have to replace the wax ring. You got to replace the wax ring.

Speaker 2 9:14

That is a plumber's job. Homeowner's not supposed to be there doing that and I do, especially from other states. They used to. I don't know if they're doing it anymore. They would go ahead and pull the toilet and they'd charge the homeowner an extra $150 to pull the toilet Right. It's like all right. Now you're selling a plumbing service.

Speaker 3 9:32

Right.

Speaker 2 9:37

We can't do that here in Ohio. So that or there's no actual clean-out.

Speaker 3 9:41

We've had that. Why would that happen? Like is it just they were built so long ago?

Speaker 2 9:47

no, shitty flippers. I'll be honest, it's usually bad the ones I've seen that don't have a clean out. There was a clean on that pipe. The pipe had issues, so they they just took the pipe out and replaced it with one and they did not put a clean-out into it.

Speaker 3 10:05

I've also seen clean-outs like under tile floors or behind plasterboard.

Speaker 2 10:11

Yeah, we've seen them where they put the clean-out behind a finished wall.

Speaker 3 10:15

Right and we can't get to it?

Speaker 2 10:17

Yeah, we can't get to it. I remember the one they built a little finished wall around it.

Speaker 3 10:23

It was a little workout room. It was it was.

Speaker 2 10:25

It looked good it looked good and they had to take the top off so we could then get access from above.

Speaker 3 10:31

Oh and you still were doing juggles and you still had to maneuvering something that was your yoga for the day, baby, I don't want to go through the day.

Inspection Limitations and Professional Boundaries

Speaker 2 10:39

But we could get that. But still you need, you want access to your clean-out Because, first of all, plumbers charge you I don't know how much per hour quite a bit. You don't want to pay them time to get access to you. To create the access, so it could be the cap. Here's how we can do it. With a sewer scope, there's no clean-out. The cap is stuck or damaged, or the pipe is damaged no access to that clean out and one doesn't exist. I think I may have said something twice there.

Speaker 3 11:15

But either way, with any of those, the seller should have a plumber come in and create that access, that section, whatever, and you should always request that prior to buying the house, because once you buy the house and sign on that dotted line, you just bought that septic line issue well, and my my favorite little not really.

Speaker 2 11:39

But somebody flips the house like, oh, the sewer line is fine because all my workers use the bathroom while they're here working. I'm like all right you got let's say you had three guys at once. I've never really seen flippers hire a whole massive crew to take care of stuff.

Speaker 3 11:58

Right.

Speaker 2 11:59

A lot of them doing it themselves because they're you know it's more cost-effective.

Speaker 4 12:04

Makes sense.

Speaker 2 12:06

But three or four guys just peeing in the toilet is not the same as a family of four. It's not the same as a family of four taking showers, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning and using the bathroom. It's not the same amount of water flow.

Speaker 3 12:25

And I'll be. You know how many guys actually go in and use the restroom? Or do they use a bush behind the garage? I mean, let's be realistic.

Speaker 2 12:39

I don't know that percentage, but if you're working on the garage I'm sure it's pretty bloody freaking hot If there's a fence around you. I'm like, yeah, the temptation would be there.

Speaker 3 12:46

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 12:49

So you're lessening even more the number Just because my crew used it while they're working on my, it's more the number Just because my crew used it while they're working. It's not the same.

Speaker 3 12:57

It's not the same. It is not the same.

Speaker 2 13:00

That thing could be 95,. That pipe could be 95% blocked, but since they're only there six hours a day, in fact, six hours a day, rarely using it. As soon as your family four moves in, you're doing laundry, cooking, cleaning taking two hours, two weeks. There's a chance that I said 95% block, that 5% water flow is not going to be enough to take care of all the water you're using. You're going to have a backup.

Speaker 1 13:31

Yes.

Speaker 2 13:31

So always get scoped. Is there anything else about this?

Speaker 3 13:38

It is not the home inspector's responsibility. The client needs to talk to their agent.

Speaker 2 13:44

Did some agent think it was the home inspector's job?

Speaker 3 13:46

Yes, some agent thought it was the home inspector's job, so I just want to make sure To do what. To actually pull the toilet, put in a clean out. I'm not sure I got kind of confused in that email, so I just want to make sure I'm very clear about this for everybody.

Speaker 2 14:02

Who is either new or really doesn't understand it doesn't want to be involved in the thing I don't know.

Closing Thoughts and Contact Information

Speaker 3 14:10

So home inspection companies to a man cannot put in new clean outs. We cannot take off stuff that's been welded. We can't pull a toilet. We can't do any of that because that falls under a plumbing license and most home inspectors do not have a plumbing license. Now there may be one out there that has a plumbing license, I don't know. I haven't pulled the list recently to see if there's any cross-matching between plumbers and home inspectors here in Ohio. That's the only one.

Speaker 2 14:44

If there is a guy here in Ohio that has a plumbing license and does home inspections, that's a pretty thin line, because you as a home inspector are not supposed to do repair work on the house you inspected For at least a year. For at least a year, it's a fine line.

Speaker 2 15:02

A home inspector did the inspection and the client randomly finds his plumbing company through internet search and one of his employees comes and does it. He doesn't know what they were doing. That inspection, I mean the repair work I see nothing. He didn't do anything.

Speaker 3 15:22

He wasn't soliciting which I think is was the concern because, yeah, it used to be that a lot of home inspectors had side gigs. They were, you know, they worked in, they worked in construction, they worked in remodeling, they worked in whatever and so they kind of used home inspections as a way to funnel that sideline to their other business, to make double money off of a client, which you cannot do under the state licensing law at all.

Speaker 2 15:50

You should not Nope, oh no, if you get caught, you will lose your license.

Speaker 3 15:53

You should not Nope, oh no. If you get caught, you will lose your license.

Speaker 2 15:55

And you should, and you should. It's not to drum up business for yourself, right, it's to do a good job for the client. If you had a family member that owned a business that does repair work, I don't see anything wrong with them, but you just let them know hey, this is a family member of mine, and I think that's full disclosure.

Speaker 3 16:14

Nothing wrong with that, yeah, and that's the client's choice then to make that phone call, and you know.

Speaker 2 16:19

Well, just like real estate agents, they can sell property. They can own property and sell it and still get that commission. As long as everybody knows that's what they're doing, right? That's full disclosure.

Speaker 3 16:34

So nothing doing right.

Speaker 2 16:35

That's full disclosure so there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of real estate agents do investments very similar to that. So yeah, and they flip houses, yes, so so, yeah, good idea to get them done, not the inspector's job to make a clean out or to replace the pipe or pull the toilet. Here in Ohio, if you are a home buyer and you're listening to this and your agent says, well, well, the home inspector will pull the toilet, no no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 17:03

That is not aware, or they're using a home inspector that doesn't follow the rules.

Speaker 3 17:08

Either way.

Speaker 2 17:09

Steps out of his role as an inspector, so all right.

Speaker 1 17:37

Thank you everybodycom. That's J-I-M-T-R-O-T-H, and click on podcast. Until next time, learn and go do stuff.